“You would think that would be my rock bottom. Four days later, I was back at it”
James Cardamone and James Buckley talk about the importance of unconditional family love. Without his family and the support they showed him, he would have been lost to his addictions and vices. James C. speaks earnestly of his battle with alcohol and drugs. He wears his survival on his sleeve like a badge of honor at work so that others can hear his roar loud and clear. James C. acts a beacon of hope for those around him that are fighting a good fight.
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 – Introduction to James Cardamone
0:48 – James Cardamone shares his family experience, and how he started on a path to addiction
6:24 – Using alcohol to numb the pain. Freshman year
11:23 – How addictions affected other people. Assumed rock bottom. European trip
17:00 – Taking a job I didn’t want. Getting introduced to cocaine
19:37 – Support system was always my family. Addiction knows no insecurity. I wasn’t ready for help
25:00 – After 5 years of therapy, James C. Talks about what’s he’s gotten out of it. The white knuckle time and the apocalypse. Families that care for our well being. Outpatient programs vs inpatient programs
35:19 – Making up rules instead of fixing the problem. Making an honest effort requires honest effort. Living in the grey
40:04 – Helping others. Being a mental health advocate at work. Peru with 20 others in recovery
46:41 – From player to coach. Mental health from the HR perspective. Sales events and the hard stuff
52:37 – Partnering with UNCrushed. Internal company events around mental health. Judgement + fear = am I good enough? But it’s not about me. Labels attached to having a mental health issue
56: 31 – How people can reach James Cardamone
FULL Transcript
James Buckley:
Today on the UNCrushed podcast, we spoke with James Cardamone James. His story is one of addiction, perseverance and grit. I love talking to him about his family and how they supported him to get through all the hardships that James had to go through to become what he is today. Today he’s an enterprise sales executive at splash and has been for four years. James has done a lot of personal work to bounce back from a life that he wants thought might just be the way things are, but his family, his friends and the support system around him really helped him get through it. James will give you the details, but we’re not alone in this story. There’s so many people out there that are just like James and if you’re one of those people, this story will really resonate with you. Enjoy the show
James Buckley:
Thank you so much for joining us for another episode of the UNCrushed podcast. We are here with James Cardamone from splash. I’m so excited to have him on the show. He’s got a great story for us. We are going to touch a lot of really interesting topics today. James, thank you so much for coming on the show. How thanks for having me. Absolutely. Uh, I want to talk a little bit about what you do, who you’re with, and why you’ve decided to come on the podcast today. Cool. So I, um, I work at splash. Uh, I’ve been in sales for pretty much my whole life since after college. Um, and, uh, I decided to come on the podcast to share my story. Uh, I think it’s important, uh, to, to, to share, to, to help people. Um, I realized that the more honest and open I have been, uh, the more honest connections I’ve made, but also the more people have been, uh, I’ve been able to help.
James Buckley:
So that’s why I’m here. The help factor is huge and I think that’s a big mission for UNCrushed. Obviously we’re out there to tell stories about overcoming adversity and coming across obstacles that are in our way. And I know you’ve got quite the story and when I read it, I couldn’t help but relate. I think you and I have a very, uh, similar past, but I want to stress the fact that this might be a story that sounds like something you’ve heard before. I think as you said it in the car on the way over to the studio today, it’s the same and different for everybody. We might have the same addictions, the same mental health struggles, the same mental illnesses, but the way it, it transpires in our lives and the way it changes our, our lives is totally different. Right? So let’s start from the beginning and talk about when you were 13.
James Cardamone:
So, so I came from a, a very close Italian family. Um, we were very close in the sense that maybe somewhat even intrusive. Uh, we talked a lot but didn’t really say anything. Not that Italian family, right? Yeah. So, um, a of conversations, everybody was very, um, connected, but we didn’t really talk about anything real. Right. Um, so my whole life, my family tried to keep me in a bubble wrap pretty much, and they succeeded in doing that. Um, and when I was 13, I S I started drinking, uh, like stealing beers. Wine cooler is whatever teenagers do. Right. Um, and that kind of progressed, uh, throughout high school, but nothing like nothing crazy. I figured out just doing what everyone else was doing. Sure. Um, and that’s kind of, it’s funny how my story changes over the years as I tell it more because when I look back, um, there’s like three major things that I attribute to kind of how I ended up where I ended up.
James Cardamone:
And one of them was the relationship I had with my mother. I love my mother to death, but, um, she, one of her motivation tactics was to compare me to other people. So as a teenager I would always get like, why can’t you be more like Brian and Joe and Joe, like all this stuff. And in my head I’d be like, well, what’s, what’s wrong with me? Right? So that narrative of like not being good enough started as a, as a teenager. Uh, and I was very active in sports and um, I was a late bloomer so I went through puberty late and I got made fun of for that. And I loved basketball and I didn’t, I didn’t tell anybody this for 16 years. Right. So I came, I finally told people how to retreat. I was at, um, about a year and a half ago I was in band.
James Cardamone:
I put in like three different leagues at a time, played since I was three years old, like this whole videos of me playing basketball at three. Um, and since I was a late bloomer I was absolutely terrified to get in the shower after the game with the rest of the teammates. Yeah. So my freshman year I quit and my excuse was I want to focus on golf cause I was playing golf at the same time and I was really good at golf and I wanted to play. So, and people ask questions cause we were very confused as why I quit. And I was like, I just want to focus on golf. I just want to focus on golf. And finally people stopped asking. Um, but I told no one, the real reason. Uh, so I buried that deep deep in me. I didn’t tell anybody for 16 years.
James Cardamone:
So that was kind of a factor of just like feeling also not up to par and not good enough. Um, and then the first girl, I love the classic clothes stories. You cheated on me and this was all in the same, this was all in like the very formative years of my life, like very like 13 to 18. This all happened. Um, and it just kind of shaped, uh, I think I had a lot to do with who I became later on in life and all that attributed to the drinking and the drugs for sure.
James Buckley:
So you know, those formative years where were super influential, right? Like everything that happens to us impacts the person that we become later. And I think when we deal with things like cheating and things like drinking that most of the time adults deal with, especially at the time. How old are you now? 32 32 okay. So we’re right around give or take five years or so. A, I think in the nineties especially, and in the early two thousands there was still this element of it’s okay to do the things that we wanna do. Right, right. Uh, we had just come out of like a super liberal era, right? Like everybody was kind of like blossoming at the same time. Right. The Clinton, the Clintons left the office in a great way, you know, everyone was like on
James Cardamone:
That hump, keel, the market was great. And at the time I think we were putting a lot of focus on personal growth for the purpose of becoming more than what we currently were. And then something like that happens. How did you, how did you cope with that after the fact? Because at 1516 years old, somebody cheating on you is like the end of your life, right? Yeah. Yeah, totally. Tell me about how the recuperation from that. Um, why don’t think I ever, I haven’t read, I haven’t recuperated until, until I, until, until I actually got sober and addressed it because that’s the whole thing. I never addressed those issues. I buried it just like I buried the secret of not quitting basketball, easy to do. So I buried it and I drank throughout high school. But looking back on it, the reason why I drank, I always used to say it’s because it was fun.
James Cardamone:
It was social, I was making friends. But looking back on it, I was wildly insecure. And when I drank, I had no anxiety and I had no depression. And I had, I felt, I felt a part of fearless, fearless, yeah. When I drank. So once I had that feeling, once I knew I didn’t have to be anxious anymore and I had that outlet and I was a part of a group and like everyone was going out together and everybody’s telling you it’s good. Well, yeah, especially in high school, it’s like, and then it just carried right over into college where it’s the same kind of thing. Um, so like that when I got to the interesting, it’s an interesting road I took. So after I graduated I ended up getting a scholarship to play golf at Seton hall university, a division one, division one big East.
James Cardamone:
Um, and, and I went and I didn’t know anybody there, so I went to a brand new school, a new state, didn’t know anybody. And there’s only seven guys on our team. And like I’ve always, even at a young age, I’ve always had like these like existential questions of like, why are we here? And like all this stuff, it always was in me. And when I got to college I started kind of asking those questions more. And one of my teammates actually was a born again Christian and he, uh, he didn’t drink and he was really into like Bible study and going to church. And I grew really close to him and my entire freshman year of college I didn’t get drunk once. And I was in the library on Friday and Saturday nights, like reading like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, you’ve heard it, freshman can spend your entire freshman year.
James Cardamone:
So, yeah. Yeah. Um, which was a very, it’s an odd choice for a freshman in college. Um, and part of it had to do with, I was searching for something, I was looking for anything really. Uh, cause I did feel alone because I didn’t know anybody and I was struggling with golf. So when we, we had seven guys on the team, only five traveled. So if you’re not playing well, you’re one of two guys who stays home. Got it. And golf was basically the way you got into class and you went to practice and practice took five hours. So the white people I knew my freshman year where the guys on my team, the guys that were on the course, right. So if they weren’t around, I’d be on the weekends and I’m all alone. Um, and I had a much healthier outlet back then. I was actually going to church and Bible study and doing all this and I felt like something was still missing, but I felt better than I did in high school because my drinking, while I wasn’t like out of control in high school, it still caused problems with my family and all of that. So yeah.
James Buckley:
Time your uh, abusing a substance at a young age. I feel like there’s a different reaction that takes place. And I think that’s just because of our developmental stage at the moment. Right. People when you’re an adult you can drink and you catch a little buzz and then they’d put that drink down. Right. Some people will liken this to like coming home and having one drink instead of seven. Sure. Right. Yeah. I hear that a lot. People that don’t have a drinking problem and never have, right. Oh, you can drink without getting drunk. Can you hear that stuff all the time. Uh, and I think to a point, some people actually do, are able to change the way their mind is wired and enjoy a drink, even though they’re a recovering alcoholic, so to speak. Uh, but others are not able to do that. And I feel like the ones that start drinking habitually, earlier on in life have a difficult time because their brain is wired to be attracted to it. Right. Instead of wired to enjoy it. Right. And that’s totally different. Uh, tell me how that experience was for you as a freshman. That went their whole freshman year sober and then became a sophomore and totally changed. Totally shifted.
James Cardamone:
That’s one of the, that freshman year also made it very difficult for me later on to reconcile the fact that I had a problem because I would always go back to that and be like, well, Hey, I drank from 13 to 18 and then I stopped cold Turkey all by myself. So yeah. Right. Exactly. So it was hard that year actually did more harm than good later on I guess. But, um, it was the end of my freshman year and my teammate, uh, lived in England. He was a senior and we threw a going away party. I drank that night. And then, and then everyone was like, Oh my God, I didn’t know you were this fun. Like they came, they came back, I came back up again. And it’s like, sure, this is what I want to be a part of. Like, like people know, right?
James Cardamone:
Yeah. People know me now. I like the, you want to hang out with me, like that type of feeling. Um, and then the next three years it was, it was just the typical binge drinking of college, but we were drug tested. Um, so I smoked weed here and there and I was friends with the soccer guys and other guys and they would get like painkillers and I would once in a while do those. But it was, it was mostly just like heavy drinking in college. Um, and the first time I realized that it was affecting other people was my senior year, uh, me and my coach, I, we still talk, uh, 10 years later we still have a conference. We still, uh, communicate and he called me into his office. Uh, my was the spring semester, my senior year and we had both, both seasons. And he goes, he goes, if you don’t want to show up anymore, you don’t have to. And I was like, that was the first time it hit me where I’m like, Oh my God, like this is affecting as like I’m bringing this into other people’s lives now cause he’s like, I don’t want this as a part of my program. It’s like feel free to quit. Yeah, he usually bets basically when you say he’s like, you can keep your scholarship through the end of the year. He’s like, you don’t have to come to practice anymore.
James Cardamone:
Like Oh my God. Um, and I was, I felt so sad. Like I was actually like sad for like you lost something. Yeah. I felt like I let him down. I let my teammates down cause towards the end it was like kind of like a big joke towards my, like my senior year, year two was like, I was just a party guy. Like I wasn’t even on the golf team anymore. Um, I was, but like, I wasn’t there and like everybody knew it. Um, golf bag full of beers, right? It’s just like I would show up in the weight room smelling like a bottle of whiskey and like the weight instructor told my coach and he’s like, we don’t need this around. And that’s when my coach pulled me aside and this appointment, my parents would’ve felt if I told them, so I put my shit together and I’m like, all right, I can, I can make it the next three months without being like a getting into this kind of drinking.
James Cardamone:
So I just put the bottle down for a little while if didn’t get too bad and I, I finished out the year on the golf team. Um, but that was the first time where I was like, it was a big eye opener. I was like, Holy shit. Like, something’s wrong. Something’s not right, you know? Yeah. So, uh, this is where I kind of drive the conversation to the point where it got worse. Uh, yeah. It almost always gets worse before it gets better when it comes to addiction. Right. The rock bottom mentality sort of comes to mind when I talk about it because, uh, as a, as a former addict myself, I know what that’s like to sort of wake up one day and realize that you’re doing something that you definitely know better than sure then you should be doing. Um, so tell me what transpired after this happened.
James Cardamone:
Unfortunately, that was not my rock, but I rock buyer. Yeah. So that was not my rock bottom. And then so, so I took business classes and in college I didn’t know what I wanted to do. No one does. Right. It was 2010 to when the job market was shit. It was just like I had no desire to go sit behind a desk, none of that. So, um, like I was taken somehow I managed to swindle my way into graduating with a business degree, but mostly taking sociology and philosophy classes because that’s what interested me too. But I couldn’t, like, I didn’t want to graduate with an arts degree, cause like, what am I going to do? Right. So somehow I was able to work that out. Um, and one of my teammates, uh, lived in Barcelona and he was going back home. And then my other teammate, he had no desire to get a job either.
James Cardamone:
And we caddied at a nearby course and we’re like, let’s catty all summer, we’ll save up and then we’ll go backpack across Europe and we’ll stay with um, [inaudible] who was living in Barcelona and we’ll just backpacking across Europe. Sounds great for your sobriety. Yeah, totally. Right. Right at that time I didn’t, I didn’t realize I had an issue. Right. So, uh, so we catty I County the first day and we come back home and we go out that night. The first day we have to Acadiana and I’m out way too late and he goes home and goes to bed and he’s banging on my door the next day and he’s like, come on, we got to go. We can’t, we got to show up. We got to show up. And I’m like, no, I’m not going. Like, I’m going, I’m a mess. I’m not going. And he wouldn’t leave. He wouldn’t leave.
James Cardamone:
So I finally, I get out of bed, I show up and I ended up caddying for, uh, this group of guys, four guys, um, and I was four caddying, so they were in a cart. And um, all I would do is just run ahead, watch where their balls would land and take out the flag rake the occasional bunker and then run ahead and just make sure I found their balls. Yeah, very little conversation with these people because I’m always ahead. Um, one guy drops out after the first nine holes, uh, and the other guy looks at me, he goes, Hey, you want to drive the cart for the back nine? And I’m like, of course, yeah, I don’t want to drive the car. I don’t want to run. I don’t want to run around anymore. So yeah, I’ll drive the cart. Maybe I haven’t started talking.
James Cardamone:
I tell them my whole plan. Like, we’re saving up backpacking across Europe, blah, blah, blah. M’s around, he works on wall street. He’s like, send me your resume. And I’m like, didn’t you hear anything we just talked about? I was like, I am. I have no desire to like get a job. Like we’re going to you. I got him going and you’re not going to work. I’m not going to work. Like go like we’re going to Europe. Um, and he’s like, just send me your resume. Right? So I go home and like I tell my teammates and like my roommates and like, dude, you gotta send them your resume like so hard to get a job. Like wall street. Like you got to do this. So I sent him my resume, he offered me a job two weeks later. So now, yeah. Nice. So, so now it’s the decision, do I take the job or do I go backpack across Europe?
James Cardamone:
So I tell my parents, my dad, go back, back across Europe, you’ll have a job as will be there. Your mom, your dad said he goes, jobs will be there your whole life. You’ll have jobs and you come back. You have all the opportunity in the world. Your 2010 have an opposite debt. You have. It’s right. I I, I’ll get to that later, but yes I do. My mom on the other hand, not so much. You’re taking that job. You’ve got to take that job. This is such a great opportunity. All of the stuff. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I talked to job, alright, I took the job and a mom listen to mom and that, that, that started the resentment towards my mother. Woo. Which, ah, lasted the next 10 years. But I took the job, a job. I didn’t want to do a job I didn’t enjoy.
James Cardamone:
Um, and I fell into that whole, that whole life like hook, line and sinker. And I started, once I got introduced to cocaine out fat, was that, forget it. I think that for people that are involved with cocaine or people that get introduced to cocaine, it’s one or the other extreme, right? In my experience, it’s, it’s people that say, Oh no, that’s not for me right away. And they never touch it again just because they know it’s not for them. Right. And then there’s us, right? There’s people that hate cocaine but love the way it smells. And then when those people get ahold of it, it seems to really drive home this like hook, you know, like I, I don’t know what it is about it. I never know what it is and I don’t want to glorify it. Yeah, no, no. But I’ll say that.
James Cardamone:
I’ll say this. People that have that experience tend to come out of it with a completely different perspective than others. Right. Um, and I suppose you could say the same thing for most hard drugs, right? Typically you don’t see people that give up smoking weed and have a different outlook on their lives. Right. But you do see people that come off of alcohol, cocaine, crack, heroin, uh, even ecstasy and methamphetamine. Right. Uh, they come out with a different perspective. They see things a little bit differently. Sure. Uh, looking back at it now, I’d imagine you’d be a lot like me in the sense that you want to tell your younger self, Hey, do all of this without that, right? Oh yeah, yeah. [inaudible] how it goes. Yeah. But would you be the person you are without that experience? No, of course not. And I, in the beginning of my sobriety, I, I resented all I was, why me?
James Cardamone:
Why? Like, why, why can’t I just go have a beer? And I was always angry because people couldn’t, where people were going out and they could go home. And if I went out, I wasn’t home for two days bite you. Right, right. Yeah. So it’s just like he invites you, come on. Right. I know. Right. So in the beginning of, I had a lot of anger and I was like, I wish my, I w if I could go back into, I used to remember to say this to my mom, if I could go back, I would change so many things. I would have three years in November and I wouldn’t change. I think, uh, it’s the best thing that ever happened to me. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a great thing. Um, tell me about your support system that helped you through this. Everybody sort of has one, and there’s two points that I want to hear about now.
James Cardamone:
Right? The F let’s do the first one first, right? I wanna hear about the support system and then I wanna hear about the steps you took. So the support system was always, it was always my family. Um, I mean my grandfather was an alcoholic, um, and my aunt is 13 years sober, so it’s in the family, but this goes back to, it was never really talked about. Like no one said to me like, Hey, like your grandfather was an alcoholic, like your aunts and alcoholic. Like maybe you should like watch yourself. And I don’t totally believe that it’s a a hundred percent genetics. I think it’s a lot of environmental and trauma and stuff. A lot of variables, a lot of variables to it. So, but no one ever had that conversation with me. Um, but it, with my family, they always knew. I feel like some people, my family knew more than others.
James Cardamone:
Uh, and I was to type of guy throughout my twenties. I was never a closet drinker or like, uh, did it in private. Like you knew I was there, like, so like people knew I had issues simply because of the way I acted. Um, so it wasn’t until I would say like 27, 28 where people were like, Hey man, like, are you OK? Like, what’s going on? Um, because as I got older, I continued to do jobs I didn’t enjoy and then people start dying in my fat. Like my grandfather committed suicide, my uncle died unexpectedly. Wow. So a lot of, a lot of traumatic things were happening. Um, it makes it that much easier to dive into the thing that makes you feel comfortable. Well, yeah. Like you like were in the beginning when I said the alcohol made the anxiety go away. Like insecurity was always one of my biggest things.
James Cardamone:
And cocaine takes that times a hundred. It’s, I don’t think cocaine has ever heard of insecure. No. Like when I did that, I felt like I was the man. Sure. Like I would walk in somewhere very glamorous drug, 100%, but it’s not sustainable. I’m not reality. No, it’s exactly right. Right. Um, so like a couple of things happened in my twenties where that first girlfriend we ended up having like a toxic relationship for like the next like five or six years. We went to different colleges. Somehow we ended up with the same kind of friend group. We were down the shore together all the time, uh, in like unconsciously. I think I was trying to get back at her for a lot of the things she did to me. I know I’ll wreck my life right. But like I would, I would kind of bring her into all of this.
James Cardamone:
Uh, and one of the things where my family really found out how bad it was, she took it upon herself to call my mother and tell her, um, like the extent of my, I bet that went over well. It just don’t tell your mother. It just so happened that it was the day my sister was shopping for her wedding dress. So fantastic. Needless to say that that was a blow up of a, of a fight, but it was so that’s when it really like hit my mom and my sister like, okay. Like, what is it like, what’s going on? Like, what are we going to do about that? Like what’s the deal? Like that’s their immediate thing. Like what are we going to do about this? That’s Italian families. We have to go save him right now. Exactly. All go together. Exactly. Your cousins. Exactly right.
James Cardamone:
Yeah. No, 100%. Um, but all that was, was just overbearing and push me farther away and made me want to do it even more, which is deny that help. Exactly. That wasn’t ready. Um, so it just get, it kept getting worse and worse and worse. And then I got arrested, uh, when I was 20, uh, 27 or 28, I don’t even remember. And that’s when my best friend who I just went to Vegas with the previous week, my best friend since kindergarten was the best man at my wedding. Um, I called him cause he’s like one of the few numbers I actually memorized and I’m like, I’m not calling my family. I’m in jail here. Um, and I called him thinking like, he helped me out and he called my family. He’s like, he’s like, he’s in jail. Like he needs help, like this has got to stop.
James Cardamone:
Um, so that’s when my family led somewhat of a intervention, I guess you would say. Sure. Uh, they were all there and my mom, Italian mother that she is, she’s like, you’re either coming home, going back to Pennsylvania, uh, you’re going to rehab or are you going to see a therapist? So I’m weighing my options here. And I’m like, yeah. I was like, okay, well I’m absolutely not going home. I’m not, I don’t have a problem so I’m not going to rehab. But I knew in denial, still denial put up on a little piece of me. I’m like, something’s not right here. Like I did probably missing your happiness. Well, that’s the thing, it, it stopped being fun and he like, it wasn’t fun anymore. Yeah. I’m more of an obligation. Yeah. Yeah. Andy was a, and I was kind of exhausted at the point.
James Cardamone:
I mean, I just literally was, I was just in jail for like 36 hours and this was like the next morning. So I was like, I sure I’ll go to therapy. Like I think it’s time and you think that would be my rock bottom. Four days later I was back out. Um, but I continued to go to therapy, so I haven’t gone to therapy for five years now. But from the day I went to therapy, it took me two more years to actually get sober. Wow. So we’ve, we’ve talked a lot about therapy and I, I of want to touch on it only because I feel like we’ve just barely scratched the surface on the show about what therapy can do for you. Uh, I spent most of my younger years in both individual therapy as well as family therapy because my family dynamic was not the greatest.
James Cardamone:
Right. Uh, I’m always interested in curious. We had Richard Harris on this show, uh, not too long ago, and he talked about what therapy did for him and for him it was a lot of getting things off his chest and being able to talk to somebody that’s willing to listen, uh, and then provide feedback to him around changes that he might think about making. Uh, and he got a lot out of that. What did you get out of therapy? I got something totally different from Richard out of my therapy. What was it that you got? Um, for the first two years? Nothing. Okay. Like, cause I, that’s a fair argument I have. I mean because I was still so for those two years, and this is when I met my current wife, um, who was the my girlfriend at the time, but when I met her, she kind of like unearth something inside of me who I, that didn’t take any work on my end to actually to get back.
James Cardamone:
Like I, I found like, like a small bit of love and connection again, which I was completely lacking that whole, that whole all throughout my twenties, which is why I led to, I went to the booze and the drugs. Sure. You were detached from the human connection 100%. And she, she kind of filled a big void for me. But the issue with those two years is I was going out, but I wasn’t working on anything. So I would like not drink for like two or three weeks and then I’d go out and it was the apocalypse. So this went on, said no. Yeah, but don’t, that was, I’ve never heard it described, but that’s what it would be like you’d like, I would go with three weeks, white knuckle it as they say. Right. Cause um, cause I’m with her and like I didn’t feel the need to go out as much, but I wasn’t working in resolving any of those issues that led me to drinking in the first place.
James Cardamone:
Sure. So then that one, that one time and in the next, after the three or four weeks, then I’d be gone for two days and I disappear and I’d have 50 missed calls. And this went on for two years. And then ironically enough, Monday was my therapy session. So every Monday I’d go in and looked at my therapist. I’d be like, I think you need to stop drinking. And she’s like, yeah, I think you should probably see what it’s like. Like she, she, she was very patient with me. Um, and we need that. Right. But that that was, I wasn’t getting that from anybody else. So when you, when you ask what therapy did for me, I maybe I didn’t get a lot out of as much as I did after I got sober, but I got the compassion and the empathy from the therapist that I wasn’t getting from anybody.
James Cardamone:
That’s, that’s really interesting. I wonder if the lack of pressure to change, which is I think what we typically get from our families as addicts, addicts have families that care for their wellbeing, right? Those families tend to be really familiar and aggressive and they have no inhibitions about telling us the changes we need to make. I liken this to that really great aunt that we’ve all known our whole lives. That’s like, James, you should really change your life right now and you should take these steps to do it right and we’re like, blah, blah, blah. Right? Don’t care. It’s ineffective. But when somebody says, wow, that’s a great thought you, you might consider seeing what that’s like. Something happens in people like us where we’re like, Oh, you’ve, you’ve validated that you’re healing your hearing. You actually to me. Yes. Yes. So, so for the first two years, that’s essentially what you got out of it was that I got validation right when I started in getting out of it.
James Cardamone:
I did that. That was it. It was, it was the compassion and empathy component as the opposed to look what you’re doing to me. Yeah. Cause the family side of it and you don’t see what you’re doing to your family until you’re on the other side of it. And obviously I, I’ve made my amends and I feel terrible for it and I see it now, but at that time I was in so much pain. I was like, you can’t see the pain I’m in. It was always me, me, me, like my sister, like, well, you can’t leave. You’re doing this to me, my mother, I can’t believe you’re doing this to us. My therapist never said that. She, she, she was on, she had the, I can’t believe you’re paying this bill. Right, right, right. But, um, she had that soft nurturing, like, yeah, let’s see what it’s like.
James Cardamone:
And she was very, very patient with me. That’s great. And I needed that for those two years. And then finally at, uh, the last time. So, so that was, I started going to therapy, uh, right after I got arrested. And then two years later, and then, uh, in August, August 6th of 2017, my 16, my dad passed away. And that, um, that, that, I mean, that threw me for a whole different kind of loop. Right. So, um, I went out twice after my dad died and my dad exemplified what it was to be a man. Like I couldn’t have, I couldn’t have had a better role model, um, what it was to be a husband, what it was to be a father, a brother, even his work ethic, everything about him. Uh, when he died, the last time I went out, I, I, I, I’ll never forget, I went out, I was gone for like 24 hours, supposed to meet my wife for dinner, blew her off or my, she was my girlfriend the time, but I was supposed to meet her for dinner on Friday night and never showed up.
James Cardamone:
Um, and I ended up going out to whatever I was doing. I ended up alone. So towards the end, I was alone. I wasn’t even going out with anybody anymore. Um, and I’ll never forget I’m in, I’m in a hotel room and I’m, I’m say to myself, my, how’d I get, how did I get here? How’d I get here? And then it’s 10 o’clock in the morning and it’s time to face the music. I have about 60 miss calls and I go back to the apartment. Um, my girlfriend’s gone, just took our dog. Um, and I sat in my bed and I cried. And that was, that was the defining moment for everything for me. Um, not only was she, not only did she finally had enough, she put up with that shift for two years of me being good, then off the rails being good than off the rails.
James Cardamone:
So she had enough. Um, and then my dad was gone too. And at that moment, something inside of me changed and I’ll never forget, like saying it to myself as this how I’m going to honor my father. And I never thought that way when he was still alive. Never, never even crossed my mind. I always thought when he was alive, I was like, I wish I could be more like him. Like I wish I could be more like him. And I was like, I can’t, I’m not, I’ll never be like him. Um, and that fed into my narrative of never being good enough and all that bullshit. Right. Um, but at that moment, everything changed for me. Um, and that’s when I checked myself into outpatient rehab two days later. And the rest is history. Outpatient
James Buckley:
Rehab was a probably a big decision for you two days after this incident took place. You walked away from it all and checked yourself into a hospital. Yeah. Uh, kinda been in and out of hospitals and myself on the rehab side, mostly for addiction and behavioral health and, you know, misbehaving as a young man and things of that nature. Uh, I think outpatient is an interesting concept because you put a lot of trust in people that have crazy cravings to run around town and do outlandish things. Right. Um, and you know, for me, I feel like when I hear your story about what happened after your dad passed, first of all, it reminds me of what happened to me when my dad passed. Uh, but it’s always an interesting thing to know that we all land in the same boat of is this how I will honor their memory?
James Buckley:
Is this how I will represent them moving forward? Is this how I will measure up so to speak as you put it? Uh, it does force the question about how your family felt at this time in your life because this is two years after getting out of jail. You got into therapy two years after getting out of jail. Yeah. Uh, you got out of jail, got into therapy in that two year period before your girlfriend at the time he left, took your dog disappeared and you went into rehab. Were you still talking to your family regularly? Yeah, but it wasn’t, um,
James Cardamone:
It was still a toxic relationship in the sense of like, we still, we never healed anything. I had barely really any relationship with my sister. I’m almost not existent. Right. She was, it was almost like she was just a second mother to me at that point where I would just push her away. Um, and then I still had a ton of anger and resentment towards my mother. Um, uh, and then like during that two years, it’s like my dad was in and out of being sick. Like he had a stroke and then he rehabilitated and made a full recovery. Uh, and then he got sick again. So like all that was going on at the same time too. Uh, so like the relationship didn’t, it wasn’t any different than what it was before I met my, my girlfriend, cause like I said, mentioned earlier that we weren’t, we didn’t address anything under the rug. It was completely under the rug in like, my family loved Michelle because like all like this, they bring out a, he, she brings out a better side of him. What’s the best for you? Yeah. Right. But it didn’t really change anything.
James Buckley:
Tell me about, tell our audience really about the steps you took. So you went to the outpatient program. How long were you in that program? 12 weeks. 12 weeks. It’s a 12 week, 12 week outpatient program. Yeah. Uh, I don’t want to ask you what you got out of it, but I do want to say it had to have made an impact. So it’s interesting to me that you can go to therapy for two years, right. One-on-one, completely private setting. Yep. But in this outpatient facility surrounded by people that have similar issues that you do. Yeah. You managed to find your way into the light. Yeah. So tell me about why that made a difference and why. One thing was sort of kind of menial and the other was quite impactful. Right. Um, good question. So
James Cardamone:
I actually called my therapist after and I was like, Hey, what do you suggest? Like should I do inpatient? Um, and she suggested, why don’t you try out? Because I didn’t need to detox or anything cause I wasn’t going, I didn’t have days together. It was like, like I mentioned, he was three weeks and then I’d just go out for two days. So like I didn’t need to be like watched and detox at that time. So she’s like, why don’t you try binge or not? Yeah, right, right. So she’s like, why don’t you try to do outpatient and let’s start there instead of like going right into inpatient. So I said, okay. Yeah, I mean I’ll take your suggestion like, ah, at this point I’m open to suggestions, like, like whatever you say. Um, so she referred me to a place in Manhattan and I, and I did it and I’ll never forget, I walked in and uh, the first group I was in, it was all man, it was an all men’s group.
James Cardamone:
I started in and there was eight of us. And of course the first day I don’t belong here. The first thing that came to mind, I don’t, I don’t belong. You say it out loud. No, no, but like you were thinking, I was thinking it and like, like the guy in the group was leading the group. Like you could tell like I was distant. Like I sat on the last chair, the closest to the door. Like I was like, if I had to pretend I’m going to bat strikes, I am out of here. Or if like I have to go the bathroom, like I’m just not coming back and like you’d be like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Um, but I F eh, it’s hard to describe. Like when you say like what the difference was it, I still think it goes back to the whole father thing.
James Cardamone:
Like something changed inside of me at that time and know everything was different. Um, and when I decided, like I told my wife like, give me a like, give me a shot. Like I’m actually gonna, I’m gonna make an honest effort. This work. Yeah. Cause for those two years I would always tell her like, I’m going to stop. And like, I would make all these rules, which I’m sure you’ve done. I’m not drinking liquor and I do cocaine anymore. And like, I only drink beer to do cocaine. Right, right, right. Yeah. And it’s like, I’ll have a glass of water in between drinks, like all these stuff in the work, all these stupid rules. None of it worked. So she was just sick of all that shit. So when I was like, I’m gonna make an honest effort here, like, like stick by me and like give me a shot.
James Cardamone:
Um, and my whole, my whole life I was always, everything was black and white. Nothing was ever gray. So like, I know I’m trying to, I this, it’s like one of my goals and sobriety is to live in the gray. I like that the grew up in the gray cause everything was always black and white. Like even like quitting basketball. And I know there was for other reasons, but like, just golf, I want to focus on like, I, I couldn’t play two sports. I wanted to be the best EQ off. I couldn’t be mediocre at, at two sports. I want to be the best like off. Yeah. Um, so when I made a commitment to myself that like, Hey, I’m gonna get sober, I dove head first in and then it wasn’t just inpatient. I upped my therapy. I joined a group. So now I’m going to therapy twice a week. I’m going to inpatient four times a week for 12 weeks after work. I’m reading podcasts, I’m listening to podcasts, reading books. I signed up for a retreat in Bozeman, Montana, like [inaudible]
James Buckley:
Bozeman is amazing. Shout out to you both, man. I love you. Bozeman, Montana,
James Cardamone:
Love those men. Um, but that was, that was it. Like that’s, I dove into recovery. Like I didn’t, I didn’t like dip my toe in. Uh, and that first, that, that was, that was the game changer for me, I think. Yeah.
James Buckley:
So you just really committed yourself to what you wanted to change about you and you went for it and it worked out. You’re coming up on three years, three years. November 12th. So, so three years is a long time in your rear view mirror. Yeah. Um, who’d you lose? Um,
James Cardamone:
No one that I would say that I had like significant relationship with. I mean, the only people I lost were the people I thought were my friends. Don’t you find that interesting? Yeah. Very interesting.
James Buckley:
When, when I, when I was deep in it, and I know that, that you probably felt the same way. The people that are around you in it are your family. Do you feel like they will be with you until the thicken and they’ll never leave my side. Right. But then you make that decision and you commit and suddenly that thing that attracted them to you in the first place disappeared, disappeared. I felt like, I felt like I was back in freshman year of college. I was just about to say, I bet you felt like that kid. Yep. That was sober and sort of an outcast. [inaudible] isolated 100%. Yeah. So, uh, what’s, what’s it like now, you know, three years into sobriety building a new life, so to speak. Right. I bet. I bet. To some degree, I’m imagining it’s sort of all feels new still to a degree. Uh, what does that translate to for you with regard to your current goals? I remember you said earlier in the episode that you didn’t really know what you wanted to do, right. You didn’t really know what you wanted to be. Yeah. I bet that picture is much clearer now. Tell me about that. Um,
James Cardamone:
So yeah, I mean, one of the things, so it’s interesting. So I brought my mom into therapy, um, which was terrifying. That’s the craziest sentence that’s ever been said on this show. So I made, I would, I say I dove in head first. I dove in head, brought my mom. Yeah. So like when I got sober, obviously my family was thrilled and they were out. But in the beginning, they’re all hanging by the edge of their seat. Like, is it real? Like you sent this for three years now, like you’re gonna stop. So, um, so at the beginning it was just like, all right, let me get my feet under me and like, let me just, just string together like a couple months with no drugs, no drugs or drinking. Right. Um, and then after that it’s like, all right, let’s, let’s find out why I did all this in the first place.
James Cardamone:
Uh, and that’s really when I started doing the work with my therapist, and I’ll never forget, I was like, I’ll sit in therapy. And I was like, I’m 30 years old, so this is two years. Almost two years ago I was like, I’m 30 years old, when am I going to stop blaming my mother for my problems? And I said this out loud to the therapist and then I was like, I think I need to bring my mom in here. And she was like waiting, she’s been waiting for that day. She’s like, but she needed me to acknowledge the fact that I needed to do that. Right. Because that goes back to your original question of like what I want to do with my life. I’ve been putting myself in like this protective box cause I didn’t, I didn’t want to get out of my comfort zone or to take that chance.
James Cardamone:
Yeah. Cause I was like sales, finance, sales, finance. I bounced back and forth for the last 10 years. That’s all I knew. Um, but at my core, I’ve always wanted to help people in, one of the things my mom said when I brought her into therapy, she’s like, do you remember when you were five years old and you said you wanted to be a cop? And I’m like, no, I don’t remember that. And uh, she’s like, but I told you, you know, you should need to be an FBI agent. And that right there is like the, like it solves the whole relationship up in like a nutshell. A cop wasn’t good enough for her. Like she, she wanted me to go, you’re not via agent. Right. Um, but at my core, I’ve always wanted to help people. So like I even recently I got certified to become a recovery coach. Nice. Um, so like I’m, I feel like I’m stepping into the man I was always meant to be. And I think when we say recover, like I think that’s what you recover. Like you recover that child and you, you cover who you are always meant to be. Um, for those 12, 13 years, I just completely lost myself. Um, but at my core, I don’t believe I ever really changed, but a lot of it was just all buried under just a lot of emotional bullshit and then the drugs and the drinking obviously doesn’t help anything.
James Buckley:
Yeah. Yeah, I would agree. I, and I think we lose sight of who we’re meant to be. I think w I think before we start using, uh, whether that’s alcohol, cocaine, whatever your substance of choice it might be when you’re an addict, there’s a moment in time when you’re not an addict and you have a very clear picture in your mind of who you will be. It might not necessarily be clear what you’re going to do for a living, right. But the person you want to be is very clear and then you start using and suddenly that person kind of disappears into the background along with everyone, you know? Right. Because no one wants to be around somebody that has those types of hooks in them. No. Um, you mentioned that you brought your mom into therapy and I feel like that is a strong, first of all, a strong move.
James Buckley:
But second, I F I feel like that was probably a sign for you and the rest of your family that this was really happening. Oh yeah. And that you really did care and it wasn’t just words anymore. Right. Um, so moving from there to a point where you’re ready to face, you know, your resentment for your mom and everything into a professional career. What’s that transition look like for James and how does, how did it come together to what it is today? I mean, you’ve been at splash now for four years. Uh, you’re kind of an anchor there when it comes to mental health awareness, uh, sharing your story openly and talking to your team internally about coming and talking to you about their own mental struggles. Yeah. Uh, tell me why that’s important for you and what it’s done for your self image and your projected image to your team at this point.
James Cardamone:
Yeah, no, the all great questions. Um, the thing, I think the thing I searched for with all of the drinking and the drugs was human connection. Right? And you think you’re so connected cause you’re always partying and you’re always out. You’re always around people. Yeah. But I’ve never felt more alone in my entire life during that period of time. Um, and I’ve always yearned for that human connection. Uh, and that’s what sobriety has given me is the ability to actually connect on a level where it’s meaningful and you’re actually having meaningful conversations. Um, but like in my recovery, it hasn’t always been like a year in even. I, I remember asking myself, I’m like, is this what I got sober for? Like, is this what it’s all about? Like, is this, is this worth it? Like almost asking myself that. And that was like when I hit a year, um, and I didn’t know, I didn’t know what to do.
James Cardamone:
Um, and I ended up going on a retreat to Peru, uh, with a sober community. Uh, it’s a, a guy I met through a podcast called recovery elevator. And I ended up becoming friends with Tim and he’s like, Hey, I’m doing my first sober retreat in Peru. Um, and we’re going to hike the Inca trail. We’re going to do service work and amazing. Amazing. Yeah. You room with 20 other people in recovery. So first sober trip abroad, um, and I’m like, this sounds great. So I booked that trip and the same year, that same year, it was the year I got married. So I got married October 5th of last year, and then four days later, this is how, you know, you married the right human being is four days later. I left for four for 14 days on a, on a, on a trip to Peru for my recovery. And she’s like, whatever you need to go do it, go do it. Um,
James Buckley:
That’s a good lady. That’s a good lady.
James Cardamone:
Yeah. Yeah. Um, and part of that, uh, part of that, uh, trip was, I’ll never forget the guy said, he goes, when you’re hiking control, it takes four days. It’s like 26 miles or whatever. Uh, and you get to the top and you look down at Machu Picchu and then you go into Machu Picchu. But before we started the hike, he goes, he goes, you’re going to be up there for four days. Like, I like going through this trail. He’s like, let shit go, let shit go. And I’ll never forget that cause I’m walking in the last day and one of the resentments I had towards my mother was she never let me go backpack across Europe. Right, right. So now here I am full circle. So I’m walking, I had this period of time by myself and I’m walking and something just hits me. It’s like I’m at a, I had a backpacker, like I take three showers a day.
James Cardamone:
Like that was the most uncomfortable experience for me ever. I would have hated backpacking. So at that moment, and then when I got back, that’s when I brought my mom into therapy. But at that moment I’ll put them out and it hit me. It’s like, that’s not even who I am. Like I’m not a backpacker. Like that’s not who I am. At that moment in time I thought I was certain I was searching for something. I thought like that’s what you do after college, you go backpacking. But that’s not who I am at my core. Um, so that’s when a lot of the anger towards my mother dissipated. And that’s when I was like, come back. And I was like, Hey, I think we, I think you need to come into therapy. And the day of therapy I woke up and I was like, I’m calling out of work, cancel canceling therapy.
James Cardamone:
I was like, I’m not doing this. I was terrified. And she came in two more times after that. And like we cried, we hugged, like she gave me a letter that she wrote to me during my baptism that I’d never even saw before. And I read it in therapy, like the amount of healing that went on during that. And now me and my mom and even my sister, I brought my sister in therapy as well. So like I’ve repaired my whole Earth’s man, my family dynamic. Um, so like that’s I w I want to be, that’s the man I want to be here. To answer your question, it’s like I want to be, I mean, I want to, I guess I want to be like my dad. I want to be my own individual, but my dad was like that without he, he got there without going through all of my struggles. But I feel like we’re very similar now till I very similar to the way he was, but I just want a differ, I went a different route, I guess you can say.
James Buckley:
So you’re going from being a player to being a coach now and at this point you’re bringing an awareness of mental health to splash. Yeah. Uh, first of all, kudos for helping us on the movement and taking an initiative to like help your people. I feel often that team members especially, uh, you know, below the power line feel like an amazing amount of pressure all the time and it can be very taxing. We talk a lot on this show about burnout, about stress and anxiety. Um, you know, the way that our emotions sort of ride this roller coaster just like our sales cycles do. Uh, and because of that, I feel like this is such a needed conversation. So tell me this story about how you brought this to the table and what leadership said,
James Cardamone:
Because that’s often the hardest part for buying. To your point, you guys just got an HR department. I want to know how that looks from an HR perspective. Sure. Um, so one of the things about split, I mean, I’ve never had more support from the executives. I mean when I w I told my boss when I was going to outpatient, uh, I was like, Hey, I might have to leave early during this time. Like I’ve also gone to therapy during the day. And, um, he was super supportive. I told my CEO, uh, I basically told all the execs of like my whole deal and that I started there. Um, and this was almost three years ago now. Uh, and then as I got more comfortable with my sobriety, um, I started to share, cause I mean, as you know, sales happy hours, a lot of drinking events all the time, right?
James Cardamone:
So when people are like, Hey, we’re doing this, I didn’t do a lot. Like in the beginning, I was always like, I got this or I got that whatever kick off, whatever the case may be. Right. And you can’t go nowhere. At that time, early in my recovery, I just, I just removed myself from everything. I didn’t want to be around it. So like happy hours of pop up. I’d leave early, but the exact same thing and that’s all that mattered. So some people, like on the team it’d be like, Oh, where’s James? But it didn’t make a difference. As I got more comfortable, then I started telling people around me, people I got closer to at work. Um, and not only did, was I doing it at work, I was doing it outside of work. And this is where another switch came from me where it’s like sometimes we like to think we’re the star of her own movie all the time.
James Cardamone:
And like we get very self absorbed and self consumed. And even when I was in my active addiction, I was like, no one will understand what I’m going through. Um, and I also also always felt so alone. And once I start sharing, uh, even at work or externally, we’re all a lot more similar than we are different. Uh, I would agree with that. Maybe they’re not reaching for the cocaine or the drinking, but maybe it’s shopping or video games or social media. We all distract ourselves addicted to something. Um, but it all stems from pain and fear and anxiety and all of this stuff. So we can all relate on some level with that. Um, so that’s what I been like for the last three years when I’ve been at work. Um, I’m always trying to talk about it as much as I possibly can.
James Cardamone:
Uh, and then as soon as we hired our, our, our VP of people, um, this was the same time I was talking to Tim and I was like, I think this would be awesome. Like this is the first time we had an actual BP of people to make these decisions, should really have a department for this. So this is the first time we’re ever doing anything like this at splash. Um, and I think it’s a very opportune time, uh, just in the world in general, but also like internally we were, we’re growing. There’s a lot of growing pains. It’s Q4 high stress startup. It’s just, there’s a lot going on. And I think this is the perfect time, um, for us to do it. And we’re doing it this and it’s, we’re very
James Buckley:
Excited about it. You’ve mentioned resentment a handful of times, uh, in the show here. And I feel like resentment plays a big role in sales because sales and marketing specifically because I don’t know a lot of people that go to school for marketing and sales and end up in marketing and sales. Yeah. I feel like a lot of us end up with business degrees. And then we wind up in marketing. Uh, we go to learn about video production and we ended up in marketing. Uh, we go to, uh, I, I had a, uh, one of my favorite sales reps of all time that I ever worked with was a kinesiology major, you know? Yeah. It’s like sports medicine, right? I don’t know anything about that stuff. And I was like, what are you doing here? You know, like, uh, but there’s this element of resentment and I can’t help but wonder how many folks work at splash that would come to you and say, I want to, I want to get together with you and have this conversation. And how much of it comes up in those conversations where they tell you about their history and their addictions in their past and what they’ve overcome. It has to be rewarding for you to sit across the table from somebody and have them just pour their heart out to you because they feel like you’re actually going to listen to them.
James Cardamone:
I mean, 100% and that’s what I’ve, I feel like I’ve craved my entire life is that honest, open connection. Uh, and that’s to, that to me is what it’s all about. Like at the end of the day, when you strip everything else away, like when you ask those extra essential questions of like, why are we here? I feel like at this point in my life, the answer is we’re here to connect and help one another. Like at the very core of like what we’re doing here. All the other stuff kind of takes a back seat to that for me at least. Um, so that to me is when someone asks, like reaches out, that’s like a telltale sign of like they need help. Um, so any, anytime anyone ever asks like get coffee or do this, do that, like ah, I jump at it because selfishly I do it for me cause it makes me feel good. But to have that connection and being able to be there for someone, it’s, there’s no other feeling like that really.
James Buckley:
You guys are having an event, uh, around mental health awareness. Tell me about that event.
James Cardamone:
Yeah, so we’re partnering with UNCrushed, um, worked with, uh, with Tim the last couple of months. We’re trying to get this off the ground. We finally locked down a date, um, which it’s, it’s this Thursday. Uh, and as it gets closer, I’m a little, I have a little more, uh, I guess I, the anxieties riding up a little bit, a little more terrified. Um, cause I’ve told my story your bazillion times, but it’s typically in the rooms where, eh, there’s all other addicts in recovering alcoholics. Sure. I haven’t and I’ve been on podcast, but it’s through a Mike and no one sees me and it’s very, this is the first time I’ll be sharing my story in front of my coworkers and they’re sitting right next to me. Um, so like the typical stuff comes up of like judgment and fear and like, am I good enough? And then who am I to be doing this? Like a lot of that stuff is coming up for me. Uh, but I always go back to, it’s not about me. Like this is not why we’re doing the event. Like exactly. So like that’s what I really tried to work on is like separating myself from all that. Cause it’s not about me at the end of the day. Like if we can help one person at the company with this event, that’s all that matters.
James Buckley:
Then you’ve done a good thing. Um, so I have to ask, there’s two things that are going to come out of this event. Uh, one thing is going to be your expectations, right? What are those?
James Cardamone:
I try, I mean, I’m trying not to have any, um, to, to keep, uh, I mean originally I was like, if we could get, I told Liz, I was like, if we could get like 20, 25 people to show up, I think that’d be great. We made a landing page and 75 people RSVP and I think they’ll end up probably being more than that. Uh, which is fantastic. Um, and the, the whole goal of the event is to start a conversation at splash. Making sure that it’s okay that people can talk about this openly, uh, and know they have resources. If someone’s struggling with addiction, they can reach out. There’s avenues, there’s insurance, there’s just, there’s other ways to do this and you don’t have to do it alone. Like that’s the biggest thing is like, like I said, we’re all a lot more similar. Like, you can’t do this alone. I tried to do this alone for many years. It doesn’t work.
James Buckley:
It’s definitely a difficult thing to do by yourself. I’ll agree with you there. Um, I was always, I’m always surprised at the way that companies handle mental health awareness, so to speak, or even just somebody coming forward and saying, Hey, I’m struggling. Um, we’ve done some, some interesting reports that UNCrushed. Uh, and there’s a big percentage of folks that will say that they’re afraid to go to their boss and say something to the tune of I need a mental health day. Yeah. Or just I need a personal day. Uh, and when you ask those folks, you know, why the fear, they claim that they’re worried they’re going to get a label attached to them as weak, a weak, unstable, unpredictable, not trustworthy, unreliable. There’s a lot of labels that come along with having a mental health related persona or personality. So, um, I, there’s an interesting quote.
James Buckley:
I, have you seen the joker movie yet? I haven’t. So I watched the joker moves. An interesting quote from the movie, the worst part about having a mental illness is that everyone expects you to act like you don’t. Right? Yeah, sure. Now put that in the role of someone that is an addict. Right. I imagined myself in a room and I’m the only person that’s naked. Right. But no one notices. Sure. But I do. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s how I think it feels to be somebody that comes to work every day that has that mental illness or has that addiction, if you will. Uh, and I imagine that was 75 attendees. You’ll probably have a handful of them that reach out to you afterwards and thank you for the time and tell you their own story. I mean, I hope so. I hope. Yeah. Yeah. So kudos, man.
James Buckley:
First of all, on your three years sobriety, I can’t, I can’t thank you enough for coming on the show and talking about that. Um, how can people reach you if they want to get more information about your story, if they want to just talk with you and connect with you on what you’ve done, the steps you’ve taken. Yeah, I mean, the best prayer we reached me is either LinkedIn, which is my name, just James cardamom. But, uh, since I did get certified to become a recovery coach, I have my own website now. It’s called Cardamone, coaching.com C, a R D a M O N E coaching.com, or just shoot me an [email protected]. I love it, man. Thank you so much again for coming on the show. I really appreciate the time. It’s been a great episode. Yeah. Uh, thanks a lot for joining us on another episode of the UNCrushed podcast. If you have not yet subscribed, go to iTunes, subscribe to the podcast today. We love providing great tips, strategies, stories, and wins when it comes to overcoming our mental illness and mental health challenges. Uh, please reach out to me anytime [email protected] and don’t forget to subscribe today to the podcast. Thanks a lot.